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Tuesday, June 06, 2006

How Does This Argument Strike You?

Since we have been discussing gay marriage on the Grenz lately, I am curious how this article strikes you. It is a long, but interesting one that makes a cogent argument in favor of a Christian recognition of gay rights. What do you think?

7 comments:

Andrew said...

I think the author’s argument is faulty.

The author writes:
"The bottom line is, if we can grant rights to other religions like Hindus and not feel as though this violates our orthodox religious convictions, we can likewise grant rights to homosexuals."

Numerous religions have the "right" to practice within the societal norms of our culture. Likewise, with homosexuals. They have the "right" to live and practice their "religion" within the limits of our culture. When the author speaks about "grant(ing) rights to homosexuals" he is talking about something totally different.

Think about this: Mormons have the "right" to practice their religion, but our laws and culture prohibit polygamy, so they must operate within the limitations of our society. Should we redefine the culture’s concept of marriage to accommodate someone’s religious? Is this a “right”?

ness said...

I guess my question is this...

What do we gain by opposing Gay marriage politically? Is it the hope that they will stop being homosexuals if we employ a health-care embargo? Does it steal something away from heterosexual couples? Isn't there a difference between opposing something on a conviction/religious basis and opposing something politically? Shouldn't there be that difference?

I guess that was several questions. I don't know the answers to them anyway.

Sara said...

Okay, so i posted this here because Robb, i'm not so sure you really read my blog so...here is the short thing i wrote...

Today I was 'gently' reminded of my 'humble' beginnings and made the mistake of telling others about the philosophies of religion i used to believe before Robb and Vanessa showed up at Ithaca. It took 3years of salvation before i was taught any real doctrine and then another 5years to bring me to the point where i am at today. With the conversation on the Grenz taking place about Gay rights and marriages I have been pondering this question...

How long after the salvation of gay man or woman does a church wait before 'practicing' biblical seperation of a brother or sister living in sin? Obviously i do not think immediately one should be like..."okay, now that your saved you must do..." but how long does one wait...

Even when Jesus openly forgave sinners he often said "Go and sin no more" so how long does a church wait ... And a bigger question for Vanessa and Robb if he ever reads this...

Where will Vintage stand on an issue like 'seperation'?

Robb said...

Separation?

People in our old circles are now "separating" from me.

Sara said...

Robb, that really didn't answer my question any...and I'm not going to 'seperate' from you...

But i am serious, I'm curious...where does a church like vintage stand on something like the situation i gave...What does a church like vintage do...if anything?

Robb said...

Sara,

I answered your question in a serious way in its own thread on the front page of the Grenz. Hit the refresh key if you need to.

tim said...

i am still working through this issue, here are my thoughts so far, feel free to correct/instruct/etc where needed. many thanks...
i do not have a problem with america legalizing gay marriages. we are not a nation that claims to follow jesus, so how can i expect our laws to follow jesus? i can't and shouldn't. it is a free country after all and part of that freedom allows anybody to vote however they wish on a particular issue.
i believe that a lifestyle of homosexuality is considered to be sinful by god; just like murder, adultery, slander, lying, stealing, unjust interaction with others, etc. most of that list we legislate here in america, some of it we do not. we have adopted laws as a way of constructing a framework for acceptable behavior in our society.
it seems to me that a country proclaiming itself to be 'free' should only legislate behaviors that harm other folks in society. (once morality and religion are legislated, it is only a matter of time before my beliefs are 'against the law' and i am living in prison, etc) so, does homosexuality harm others? not really.
my tension comes from the flip-side of that: laws have a huge influence on our culture, and i am unconvinced that a culture that approves lifestyles that are contrary to god's plan is the best culture for my kids to grow up into perfect, complete followers of jesus. so that is why, in an attempt to raise my kids to follow christ completely, i would vote against legalizing gay marriage.
now, my vote is only the smallest part of my interaction with this issue. that is only my interaction with 'the idea'. much larger is my interaction with the people and i think that scriptures weigh most heavily to this paradigm: it is how we interact with people that matters most to god (in comparison to societal governance for example). it is obvious that jesus treated folks with heart-wrenching compassion, love, grace, and empathetic truth-telling...so how can we do any less?